Friday, February 10, 2006

Post-coital depression 

As always, when I do these things, there comes a time when I regret them. Not so much for the idea but for the fuss, and the fact that I end up having to argue with Tom, who spouts Constitutional law and always misses the point. I guess I can refer back to them now that they created their own sort of fuss about me, instead of simply letting me make the point. Exactly the same sort of over-reaction you might complaining about in the first place, but here's Part 1 and then my rebuttal.

Uh oh - site seems to be down for the moment. Hope it hasn't been crashed by the weight of attention over the controversy. Look out! Is CNN lurking under that jpg???

Uh yeah, right. Anyway, here, go ping them yourself: www.caprioledge.com. Go to the elysium forum, you'll see the threads. I'll put the links in if I ever get around to it.

Anyway, ho hum, another day in the controversial life that is Wyatt on the wonderful world wide web. Here, have another Alvin, it fits the mood:

I am also somewhat of a regular at capriole. I saw the cartoons that Wyatt posted before they were deleted.
I prefer to post my comments here because I feel a bit more welcome to “speak” freely.

My views do not reflect those of anyone on capriole and also do not reflect those of wyatt.
I am not a liberal, left wing,
right wing, democrat, republican, green or blue party, religious zealot, etc.
I am not inviting or encouraging a debate. I’m just a person with an opinion.

I suppose it is inevitable to have politics involved in both art and poetry. It is not something I enjoy seeking out.

While I believe that the administration handled the deletion fairly,
providing a link to wyatt’s blog and thoughtfully including an explanation and forum for further discussion, it was still a personal preference to delete the images, and I don’t think it was particularly necessary.

There are so many complex issues tied to the situation now, that wy’s original intent, in my view, has been completely overlooked.
We should be intellectually stimulated.

When I first saw the images, I thought of the statement one might naturally relate to,
reminding me of the basic right, freedom of speech.

I thought of the injustices that occur on a daily basis and the facade of religion
that is used to validate these atrocities.
I thought not of defending the possibility that a genuine offense could arise from these
pictures. My understanding, is that equates the DEFENSE of a thought process with a basis
in negativity, a lack of education, unfounded values, and clearly demonstrates the promotion of inhumanity.

Now that the images are deleted, I have read the arguments and statements, and I can
say , I can relate to, but am not on the same page as most of the comments that have been made.

Post-deletion of wy’s cartoons, statements on capriole did make me think about aspects
of the subject that may or may not even be in direct correlation with Wy’s original posting.

The following major points arose in my mind as I read through the various views.
No one has seemed to try to understand WHY the situation is an issue and that the issues may lie with those they are trying to protect from offense.
This was even explained with an admission of fear of retribution and therefore encourages
the actions of those who would justify their violence.
Fear is their instrument and intention.

First- I believe the media has effectively corrupted our understandings of this
(the riots and crimes committed in response from cartoons published in Denmark) and similar events.

Why have we not heard the reason why the cartoons were drawn to begin with?
Why did we only hear the first part of Margaret Hussein’s plea and not the second
where she breaks down and begs for her life before being shot in the head?
Why do we get months of coverage that demonizes our troops over “frat house” torture, yet real torture and murder were committed against children in School House No. 1 in Beslan?
Does anyone remember Beslan?
Why didn’t we see the footage of the Muslim nations rejoicing and dancing in the streets when their “martyrs” tortured, raped, and murdered children?
This hardly got the attention of a rumor of a Qur’an being flushed down the toilet, but
they sure showed how offended the “peaceful” Muslims were.

The media is biased and for the most part edits strong evidence, facts, and
select points of view from a many-sided story.
I only recommend and hope that people who defend monsters have
done thorough, unbiased,obligatory research essential to stand as permissible.

It seems like people are willing to research arguments for the things they want to trash and not research the things they want to accept.

The point of Muslims being against pedophilia was not even challenged at capriole.
Muhammad himself married a six-year-old girl when he was fifty-three and consummated the
marriage when she was nine. Muslims will not even deny this fact, but will try to rationalize it.

I don’t need a college education to know that massacring, torturing, and the inhumane treatment of innocent people is wrong, criminal, and does not constitute being protected or disguised as religion.
These hideous acts of violence are brutal, intentional, and are NOT of a few extremists, but of countless people who openly celebrate and promote suicide bombing, beheading,and unspeakable
acts against women and children.

Does anyone remember Beslan?
As recently as last week three 12 year old girls were hung in public in Iran for reporting
that THEY were raped.
The public even threw stones at them. The same thing happened to a nine-year-old girl in Iran two years ago and these are only the ones I’ve heard about. This is what happens under shira (Islamic) law.
These victims also become the victims of “honor killings.”

It is a mentality, an attitude, and unfortunately, an impending, serious, very real threat that has been imposed on nations world wide.
Yet this is what we are told to be tolerant of, to understand and negotiate with.

Secondly, I wondered, since when has being patriotic become such a bad thing?
And defending the sensitivities of a very insensitive and large group of people, by nature and by example(burning, murdering,bullying, demanding), become such a“politically and
morally correct” thing to do?????

I could go on and on. I only hope that people are more inclined to educate themselves
on who and what they are defending and believe in. Media and movie-stars should spend equal amounts of time researching, seeking the truths, perhaps even empathizing with the thousands of forgotten victims of the very people that they so blindly stand up for, simply accepting whatever the Muslim spokespeople feed them without question.

I appreciate the opportunity to state some of what I feel. I am glad to live where I live without apologies, for this government and country is not without its faults.

We have poor people here too.
We have hungry people here too.
We also have very hard-working people. We even have victims.
I struggled through poverty and oppression just the same, only I don’t kill someone every time I want to make a statement nor do I hold a grudge against a people I cannot understand and I certainly do not rejoice in the violent acts commited in a dead prophet’s name.

Still I am thankful for stating a small piece of my thoughts without restriction.
And Wy, from one artist to another, I liked the last toon about Turkish Blend cereal, nice one.
You’re a great cartoonist.
Next time maybe replace the guy with Jesus or even George Bush,
you’re likely to be praised and not censored.

Hey Wyatt, don’t know if you remember me, Jeff, from the Critical Poet, charter member of the “Drunken Poet’s Club”. I haven’t been writing much these days, but still check in with old gang from time to time. I saw your cartoons on Capriole before they were deleted and thought they were well done and actually pretty tame. The original cartoons published in the Danish newspaper that started the whole fuss were fairly tame as well from what I’ve seen, and pretty lame with the exception of one that showed Mohammed on a cloud stopping the “martyrs” as they tried to enter heaven saying “Stop! Stop! We’ve run out of virgins!”, or something like that. Islamic newspapers have been running anti-Jewish cartoons for some time from what I’ve seen and read; ridiculous depictions of Sharon eating babies, the “myth of the holocaust” and similar stupidity. They can dish it out apparently.

BJB makes a good point in that nothing would have been said if you’d have substituted Christ for Mohammed. But this whole mess isn’t really about cartoons. It’s about radical religious zealots reactions to the cartoons, and that reaction’s effect on free speech. While you can find the offending cartoons online easily enough, most of the main stream media in the US refuses to show them. So, you have to question their rationale. Are they just being respectful to the delicate sensibilities of muslims, or has the rioting, murder, arson and threats of more of the same achieved it’s goal? Call me cynical, but I suspect the latter.

It calls into question our will to stand up to a culture that would impose it’s seventh century world view on the rest of us. I guess you could say that politically, I’m much more “right wing” than most people in artistic communities, online or otherwise. I actually like our way of life here in the good ole US of A. For all of our faults, we’ve still managed to make it a pretty sweet place, and freedom of speech is one of the main reasons. Of course it comes with responsibility, but we can’t let thugs and murderers dictate the rules. Anyway, you always manage to provoke some interesting conversation. Take care.


the only thing I can tell you is that if the media portrayed it for what it is, we really would be at war with all Islam. In point of fact, that is exactly what all of these radical imams want, that's what Bin Laden wants, and that's what the Bush administration has tried desperately to avoid.

An all-out war with Islam is unwinnable because it would inevitably polarize the entire Islamic community against the West. We are pursuing a strategy of marginalizing the extremists, as it gives world leaders a chance to disassociate themselves from the violence. This also explains the US government's reaction to the cartoons - "yes, we have our ideals but we don't want to piss off the whole Muslim word, so we're willing to give in." Sad, particularly for a government that claims to detest real politic.

The West would do well to realize that no matter what WE think, the Muslims believe they're at war with us and no amount of political maneuvering on our side is going to change that.


of course I remember you. And I agree - I'm pretty fond of what we have here in the US, and I'm never going to be inclined to agree that ANY religious system should have undue influence over it.

I hope you both choose to come back for more than just the controversy.

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